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the importance of T2 BPOs

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Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 0	Posted - 2012.04.06 10:33:00 - [1] - Quote Thalysia wrote: I do not think BPO's are unfair. There are some things to be considered looking at the everlasting whining about the unfairnes or removal in the T2 BPO's vs BPC's/invention discussion. Only 7.07% of Absolutions and 23.62% of Sleipnirs produced in March 2012 were produced through invention. thats not unfair? The problem is me. The bpo can be researched to the point invention is more expensive than the cost of the BPO so u cant compete in a market that the final product is more expensive that your cost. Thalysia wrote: BPO's can be used only to occupy one slot (being it set to one month contstant build), if the owner wants to utilize more production slots for T2 he either needs to invent himself, or have more T2 BPO's. ... ... And to be honest, if for some reason an industrialist in in possession of 10 BPO's (or 11 when fully trained advanced mass production). I trhink he deserves to have this advantage. He is probably not going to mess with prices too much and cut his own margin as he needs to somehow earn back his investment. Never heard of alts ? You can have 3 characters per acount. With the money you earn with that single BPO you can buy more characters / mantain more acounts = more free production slots / more free invention. BPO T2 is free money. So u can NEVER compete with a BPO owner. He with less effort makes more money. Ways to solve it? - Removal - Make BPO - BPCs with x runs - Make BPO T2 default me -25 / -50 so they are more expensive than invention. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 1	Posted - 2012.04.06 12:29:00 - [2] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: the reason why absolutions and sleps arnt not produced via invention isnt to do with a t2 bpo. its to do with why the hell would you use one, when a t3 is better and a tier 3 bc does the same damage at half the cost. if more people used teh ship, demand woudl be higher and more would be produced via invention, its very simple issue of supply and demand, they suck in there current incarnation and demand is low. if you look at other examples from the twitter feed, you can see this in action i own an abso, but id much rather have fun in my oracle. The real reason its they are selling those ship below invention cost. 1- they are crazy and whant to loose money. 2- they use t2 BPO As stats from @CCP_Diagoras show. Number 2 is the cause.
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 2	Posted - 2012.04.06 14:00:00 - [3] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: there are a number of reasons, the producers are idiots, they mine minerials, they are free. be it t1 or t2 mins, they are free or have lowered cost due to the fact they mine them.. thats the biggest reason why stuff is cheaper. if you actually bothered to check, yourll find t2 items with no bpo that sell below the cost of the parts. dont assume anything. I dont assume i have facts if most of a market is done with BPO is because its cheaper. If not the price will rise until Invention is profitable again. A market can be under the cost of the parts for a time but it will rise in time. If the market rise above the BPO T2 cost and Below Invention cost its because of the BPO T2. Like nocxium these days the price was there because of the pax amarria when u removed it from the game price changed. Will happen to those products if u remove BPO T2. The price will raise above invention cost. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 2	Posted - 2012.04.06 14:17:00 - [4] - Quote qDoctor Strangelove wrote: Crappy ships and mods will not be manufactures as they have no value. BPO are not causing this. Crappy ships and mods will be manufactured if someone buys them above cost. The are selling above BPO cost below Invention cost. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 2	Posted - 2012.04.06 14:24:00 - [5] - Quote Gizan wrote: im currently one of the guys producing absolutions off invention. my build cost is 127mil right now, and they sell for 210, should invetion be nerfed cuz im making 70~ mil/ship? Proof? If data isnt wrong u better sell the components. http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=22448 EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 15:08:00 - [6] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: [quote=Eva Volkova][quote=Gizan]im currently one of the guys producing absolutions off invention. my build cost is 127mil right now, and they sell for 210, should invetion be nerfed cuz im making 70~ mil/ship? think you missed the part where he had moons produce the mins to make it. was that your intention? I said he better of selling the mins if he wants to loose money its his call. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 16:52:00 - [7] - Quote qDoctor Strangelove wrote: If inventors didn't undercut BPO owners and sell at 0 margin, that would NOT be a problem Also, given that T2 BPO are such a gold mine, why did most orignal owners sell theirs? Inventors arent undecuting bpo. bpo are undercuting inventor because they have better magin. If u are able to sell something for the profit of 2x3 years and someone buys it why not. But thats no the point. The point is. - If BPO T2 are great then introduce them again. - If BPO are a problem remove them from game. The first owner of the BPO was the one that got the free money. If he whants to give it free o charge 10 billion dosent make the sistem better or worse. We have two systems BPO T2 and Invention. Thats not fair or right in any way. If you whant to keep the BPO make their final product more expensive than the one you can get from invention and problem will be solved. BPO T2 more expensive but no need of invention. Invention cheaper than the BPO. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 18:37:00 - [8] - Quote Smoking Blunts wrote: the answers are. - The lottery was a mistake, invention is better and is working as intended - There not a problem how can the lottery be a mistake and not the bpo ? Invention isnt working as intended because a small % of players using BPO t2 sell a big% of the market. And with invention you cant compete with them. Telling me that with invention you can make money is the same that telling me that killing rats gives you money and what? We need a system where invention can compete in every market. If you seem BPO T2 are good lets find a way to reintroduce them. - Make a system so everyone has a chance to get BPO T2 - Or change BPO T2 so they are more expensive than invention (still give an advantage of no spending time doing invention) In a game we need to look what best for the system not what is best for us. And in no way having free card its good for anyone. They are removing R&D agents in the same way so will be a great time to think about removing/changing/reintroducing BPO T2 EvE
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 19:34:00 - [9] - Quote It isnt about envy. Its about the rules we must play with. We all play and love this game i and i would love to play in a system where everyone plays with the same rules. CPP decided BPO T2 wasnt a good system and decide to remove it from the game. The problem of the BPO is that they give an advantage to the ones that uses them and that they dont get destroyed with it use. you have two systems to produce T2 items (the same final product). The old system that CPP didnt like and the new one (invention). If you whant to have two systems you should (in a game enviroment) balance them. One without any work producing more expensive items (BPO T2). And another with more work and less expensive item (Invention). And then reintroduce BPO T2 and let people decide. EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 21:24:00 - [10] - Quote qDoctor Strangelove wrote: 1: CCP had seeded the number of BPO's that was to be seeded. That is why they stopped. 2: No BPO's is ever used up, live with it. 3: Invention is for the masses, and it only requires some small work to do and ISK. 4: T2 BPO requires you to get hold of items, then make items and sell, pretty much like any other activity. 5: Reintroduce T2 BPO's?? that will ruin invention for ever, making it totally BUST for the masses. in short, you must be in Test. 1. they stop because it wasnt a good system. 3. So in short BPO T2 are good for the elite and not for the masses ? 4. invention too + you have to do the invention so they allways are more expensive and cant compete. 5. Not if we change how BPO T2 work. If BPO are more expensive to produce but able to mass produce and Invention less expensive no mass produce. You have a choice. this is more of the same. I have mi toy and dont whant anyone to broke it i want mi "i win button for industry". Lets move all to invention o lets build a system that can work in unison wich each other. And after that re introduce BPO T2. If the BPO are good lets all have them if not remove them or change them. I dont like good for me not good for anyone else. EvA

Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.06 23:52:00 - [11] - Quote qDoctor Strangelove wrote: T2 BPO's was seeded in a fixed number. it was not stopped because it was BAD, it stopped because they were done seeding. Also, T2 BPO's are for heavy industrial investors... (not you) and veterans that never 'cashed in' When they introduced invention cpp said they wasnt happy how the lottery was handled. why? why no a new system? why scared of change? What is better with this sistem? What advantages have this sistem instead of the one i have talked about? EvA
Eva Volkova nXo Intrepid Crossing 3	Posted - 2012.04.07 08:25:00 - [12] - Quote you reply to mi post but you dont answerd mi questions. i just think invention should given better items than BPO T2 because its more time consuming. More time= better results. So please troll all you whant but eve has changed it allways is changing and thats good. Ravens where number one but missiles change and get a nerf. Vagabons pilgrims a nanocanes where a must but a nerf came. titans are seem very powerfull and they have receive nerf after nerf. Whats so important of BPO T2 that cant be changed in any way. Ok lets keep it as they are but buff invention. whats the problem you have buffing invention? - they should be a diference between using a 0me /0pe BPO and a full researched one. - why not have a chance of having better BPC T2?. Better than a BPO T2 full researched. Its only a BPC and will run out but will give you something new and will be fun (like getting an officer loot in pve). Lets make industri a better place. Lets static and with more change. EvA

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